getting called on your white privilege

[kalmn]

the cultural appropriation discussion that will not die is going around again. and once again there are a whole bunch of white people saying "but why are you so angry about this?" or "if you'd only be polite!" or some other variation on that theme.

here's the thing that has helped me *greatly* in this regard, as a pastyass white person.

just because you think someone is being an asshole to you doesn't mean they're not right.

what it does, likely, mean is that they're angry and you're defensive. *both* of those things. can't do much about them being angry, because it's not all about you. can do something about you being defensive. such as take a few deep breaths, kick something real hard (desks are good for this, as are refrigerators), and then see if you can strip all the anger off of what they said and look at it just as a thing that was said. and then why are you being so defensive?

last time i got caught by this i was asking other people to do my homework for me. which sometimes you can do, and sometimes you can't, and i should have known i was in the latter situation, but i didn't think about it enough beforehand. and then someone called me on it and i *still* think they were being an asshole about it, but you know?

they were right.

Comments

[luno.livejournal.com]

A sense of entitlement doesn't usually lend itself to introspection without some external impetus. Yes, it usually hurts, to some degree.

Yes, I've learned this the hard way. My tale is a story for another time, though.

[leback.livejournal.com]

Well said. Throwing out the message because one dislikes the messenger is easy, but often a mistake.

[sageincave.livejournal.com]

The way I think about this, is that if *random minority* youth are still pissed off about and angry about things 50 years down the road, we have a problem. But injustices are too current/recent for me (the privileged) to say they don't exist or don't matter. Even if it's just a perception of injustice, there's probably a good reason why it's there.

And I expect older minority people to have issues until they die. Just like old women who did well for themselves, but still remember the injustice they suffered, or the peer pressure they buckled to, many years down the line.

Me, I've got my issues and prejudices too. Some I'm working on, others are on hold. But I don't think I'll ever "fix" everything, even if I realize I'm "off" somehow.

[snippy]

Hold on, that's an interesting point about recent injustices. Is it generalizable?

[sageincave.livejournal.com]

I don't know...I always (secretly) snicker at Pagans who wax hysterical about The Burning Times. Can't they find some modern child custody/workplace discrimination case to be angry about, instead?

I'd also like both Yankees and Southerners to shut the hell up about the Civil War already, in regards to each other being "touchy". African-American people still have dibs on this, though.

[snippy]

I was thinking more of the Jews.

[sageincave.livejournal.com]

The Holocaust is within living memory, and there are holocaust deniers, neo-nazis, and anti-semites galore around the world. I know that in the past Jews were discriminated against in the US, and I'm pretty sure they're discriminated against now in Europe and Russia. Not to mention the non-Iraeli Middle East and other Muslim majority countries.

In my cavalier and subjective rulebook, Jewish people get to focus on the Holocaust, and more subtle personal discrimination within two generations. Heck, more people should see the parallels between the Holocaust and other genocides - there's too much genocide going on right now around the world, for society to consider the Holocaust no longer relevant.

I support the existence of Israel, but I don't give Israel a free pass for their discriminatory land seizures, their newer settlements in the Palestinian territories, and the extent to which they use their military in civilian sectors.

But you know what? I've never heard a Jewish person rambling interminably about the Holocaust*, and I've only heard people speaking against Jews *twice* in my life. I've heard one case third-hand of a Jewish person being harassed on public transportation - that's it. I don't think I even heard the word "kike" until I was in my 20's - and that was in the media as part of the Michael Jackson "jew me" flap.

I know Jews had to suffer terrible discrimination and suffering in the past...but interestingly enough, they don't seem to to let it get in the way of present relations with people who happen not to be Jewish. I'm not sure I'm saying that the right way, but do you understand what I mean?

*I take that back. My brother would not shut up one Christmas, telling me things I already knew about the Holocaust. But then he never shuts up about anything unless you yell at him.

[sageincave.livejournal.com]

dibs = free pass to bring up the injustice of those times.

[upstart-crow.livejournal.com]

I always read these things when they crop up but I rarely participate. I'm just an easily startled person by nature who can't really deal well with people yelling at me (thanks, PTSD!!! Love you too!! not.), and I think I just do better for myself and for others as an observer, generally speaking. I also don't think I have much to contribute as a white person who grew up and still lives in a culture that is very homogenous, racially speaking. I guess this is just my way of shutting up and listening to people who are better read and have more to say.

I tell you, though, I always get frustrated at some point in reading. I think mainly because I can definitely see why people of color are (justifiably!) angry, but I can also understand what many of the white commenters are trying to say, even if they're doing it poorly, ignorantly and in many cases with an indignation that doesn't serve them. And it's just frustrating, as some folks have pointed out, to see that most people seem to be on the same 'side,' but are still talking at cross purposes.

[violachic.livejournal.com]

Very nicely articulated, thank you.

[mizzlaurajean.livejournal.com]

I like the icon!

[pants-of-doom.livejournal.com]

One of the things I spend a lot of time thinking about whenever this comes up is what the most effective way to approach people about it is - what makes maximum impact for least amount of getting upset? And the answer is, I don't know. But I am really glad you're writing about this.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

http://theangryblackwoman.com/2008/02/12/the-privilege-of-politeness/
http://zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com/429727.html

[pants-of-doom.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[firecat]

yeah.

[quadong.livejournal.com]

I'm lost. What is "the cultural appropriation discussion"? I'm getting a vague sense of what you're talking about from context and comments here, but I feel that everyone else must have participated in something earlier that I missed.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

come to wiscon. we have cookies.

also cultural appropriation discussions.

which then are continued on the internets.

http://aqueductpress.blogspot.com/2009/01/great-cultural-appropriation-debate-of.html

for a roundup of this go around.

[quadong.livejournal.com]

I like cookies!

[quadong.livejournal.com]

Also: dearlordthat'salotofreadingmaterial.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

what, it's not like you have a job or anything...


[ducks]

[pipyn.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, it's also OK to ask people not to be assholes.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

mmm. being as you have some experience with the internet big meanies cabal, how often are they (well, we) told we're being assholes when in fact we are just not catering overmuch to someone else?

[pipyn.livejournal.com]

It happens. And sometimes people are being assholes and use "not catering" as a cover. I've spent a fair amount of time on Usenet telling others in the big meanies cabal that they are not being Brave Warriors but just being jackasses.

It's fine for someone to be passionate and angry while arguing their case. But no one has to put up with assholery.

[tesseract26.livejournal.com]

*icon love*

you are a smartypants. and i'm super glad to know you.